Converation thread

I’m pretty sure I debunked every shred of that argument before, but I’ll just paste the past message of mine in response to the last time you claimed we had any proof that the regions wanted to leave:

“Ah yes, the sham referendums of the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (Captured), the “Luhansk People’s Republic” (Also captured), the Kherson Oblast, and the Zaporizhzhia Oblast (Both partially under Russian administrative control). The referendums were done with extremely bad methodology, with proven reports of Russian coercion on citizens, limit…  Read moreed voting power for certain groups inside of these regions, a lack of identification or any reasonable restrictions for eligible voters, intentionally created pro-Russian parades in occupied regions, and so much more.Only 1 other country has considered the referendums to be valid: North Korea. The UN had little to no oversight of the referendums, its validity was publicly denounced by a near unanimous majority, and the referendums literally violated international law. There’s no actual proof Ukrainians want to transfer to Russia in a large enough quantity to even consider accepting. In short, they did NOT want to leave, some might have, but not nearly enough, and even then, Ukraine will refuse to allow that during a wartime like this, because these kinds of things require Russia to actually be at the table for negotiations, which it has failed to do miserably.”

I dont BELIEVE they don’t want to leave, I KNOW they don’t want to believe, and personally, I do think it’s not a horrible plan, but first we need to talk about getting Russia to the table for actual talks and dialogue to keep this from spreading outwards.

I personally think jeopardising the survival of the human race to help one dictatorship win a hopeless war against another dictatorship is, by every conceivable metric, a "HORRIBLE PLAN"

And that’s why we need to get Russia at the table to talk right now, we’ve got a lot of crap to deal with here, and the Russians aren’t stupid enough to attack other nations for sending weapons to Ukraine just as they already have been.

If you want peace talks with Russia, we're in agreement. But it sure sounded like you wanted Macron to march into Ukraine.

I want him to send supplies to Ukraine, because unauthorized nato involvement directly leads to war.

Okay, so you're a member of the less fascistic warmonger faction of conservatives and liberals, not the absolutely raving insane warmonger of Biden & Macron.

Well, sending troops creates an obvious problem on the global stage, expanding the war far beyond a simply region of the East. It’s a disastrous idea even from a warmongering perspective. Also, you are aware that fascism is nearly always right wing, right? Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, even Giovanni Genteli, they were all hilariously far-right.

Hitler was far-left, Benito & Genteli were far-right. But as someone who is neither, I have no issues.

The Hitler part is debatable, he only ever claimed to be a socialist to get the public on his side and to get into the party, though the common quote used to prove that he somehow was a socialist was said to Otto Strasser, who actually was a socialist with pro-union, profit-sharing, and Soviet style views. Hitler killed Otto’s brother Gregor, and then kicked Otto out for years, being a dissenter of the party that Hitler focused almost entirely upon nationalism and racism rather than anything even remotely leftist. Hitler himself didn’t care much about the economy, though his views…  Read more and actions were far-right, he claimed he would just do whatever he thought was good and then if it works and people are happy, “then they have their socialism”. He tended to just hug to big corporations and let them grow monopolistically bkgger as long as they stayed on his side.

No, Hitler nationalised countless major industries

So did Mussolini, that doesn’t make Hitler far-left. Our nation has a mid-center part with socially left ideals, and since our country has a rather inward view, many Americans conflate big government with far-left, which just isn’t true. Hitler nationalized some industries and delegated their power to the previous owners of those companies, using them as his personal pawns rather than for any benefit to the public. He attacked unions, destroyed workers rights, ignored the class war, focused on nationalism and racism, made the state an almost spiritual institution in the eyes of his supporters, everything on his agenda points to far-right fascism, and his handling of the economy has almost nothing leftist about it.

At most, Hitler was a Centrist dictator – he was not right wing, because rightists hate most of what he stands for.

On the contrary, the VAST majority of his supporters were far-right, drawing from the far-right across the world, and being an extremely close friend of people like Ford, Mussolini, and many more. When Hitler allied with Stalin temporarily, Stalin was viewed by his other socialist comrades as a traitor, and later led to him fighting mercilessly against Hitler in response to Hitler’s attempted genocide of the Russian people, where most of the death in WW2 was caused. His political views aligned with authoritarian right, though Americans commonly conflate authoritarianism with leftism bec…  Read moreause the far-right side of the US tends to more commonly be small government capitalists. Hitler did claim to be an anti-capitalist, but it was mostly because he believed that the current capitalist systems were ruled by the Jews, same as communism, and that HIS version of “socialism” was the answer, simply by making the government all-powerful and then reallocating funds to corporations he controlled and favored, though the capitalist system remained strong.

If he had some rightist policies, and some leftist policies, why is it a stretch to say he was a Centrist dictator?